Underpowered CPU's on Sony Bravia (x85d/x8500d)? Any good ones?

by aenertia

I recently invested in a 4k set that I assumed(wrongly) I would be able to use as a MediaPC without an external android box so bought a UHD set from Sony thinking I would be able to get 4k UI android desktop. After doing some research I bought a 8500D (x85D) which whilst I knew was running a 5.1.1 android system figured would have a relatively powerful CPU - being 4k and all.

Turns out Sony have the viewport hard set to 1920x1080 and whilst it can do 4k - it only does so through by passing off certain 4k streams to some non-standard api which can then dynamically resize the viewport to 4k. This only works in their version of the Youtube App. Running say Kodi or any other android app (including the play store version of youtube) results in a native 1920x1080 viewport See workaround I found that cannot be changed (certain content in their bundled version of kodi can hand off to the same pipeline that their youtube can, but that's it).

On top of this I get a huge amount of problems due to bad memory and scheduling handling (and omission of standard features like USB Audio DAC support) Including but not limited to

  • Casting YouTube Videos from Android phone problems 
  •  DVB-T not exposed in any usable way to android 

  •  No USB audio kernel module compiled (plug in any standard USB Audio Dac )

  •  Severe slowdown after period of playback in apps 

  •  Modifying picture settings crashes playback (Use Kodi/Inbuilt youtube app, play a video then press action button to access picture settings - BANG! video playback crashes)

  •  Random Shutdowns

  •  Available sources are not compilable without Sony's buildchain and documentation

  •  Loading a custom ROM seems to be impossible due to encryption on update blobs

Whilst some of these are underlying issues, some could easily be solved if community ROM loads were available such as the USB DAC audio support ommision. Others seem to be related to a not fit for purpose SOC in these sets. It seems pretty disingenuous that they market it as a 4k set when it can't do 4k properly from within the included UI.

So my question to those of you with Sony Set's are there any in there Line which don't have CPU underpower issues?

You can see my Community threads here :

http://community.sony.com/t5/4K-Ultra-HD-TV/bd-p/4K-Ultra-HD-TV

[edit - Further issues] 

  •  Ethernet port only runs at 100mbit - slower than required for many HVEC and MPEG modes (4k@60 FPS requires 120mbit)

  • HDR modes are not true HDR - rather more like applying an HDR effect to a render pipeline ; oversaturated reds and blues

  • Volume control becomes unresponsive under load/after a time using multiple apps

  • Keypress mappings even in the inbuilt settings are impossible for some menu items to use with the provided remote and require a usb keyboard (Try Changing the Text to Speech output language selection and installing a voicepack)

  • Unable to scale input when input is true 4k ( 4096x2160 ) - content is clipped in the X axis. Manual explicitly states 4096 will scale down to native resolution, but it doesn't and there are no zoom/scale/underscan options available in the UI

  • ASIX based USB3 Ethernet to Gigabit dongle not handled (missing Kernel module/Android mapping)

  • Wireless driver on this Soc is ath3k which IS NOT 802.11AC as advertised and only supports 802.11a modes in 5ghz client mode.

Regarding the wireless ; after a lot of people complaining about wireless performance I dumped the sources for my 85d series as well as the two new 'flagship' models. Big lies as the chip doesn't support wireless ac 802.11ac in client mode : These are using a weird atheros (qualcom) wifi SOC chip called the ath3k which is definately not a 802.11ac chip (I did this for the x85d, z9d, and x900e series sources) and it's always the same ath3k driver. It does support dual bands sure but it's not 802.11ac just wireless a (5ghz).

The 2.4ghz bands is an 802.11n chip so yes if you are lucky enough to live in an area without crowded spectrum I would expect it would be faster than 5ghz.

**[edit Whoops - wifi mis-id] **

the ath3k is just the bluetooth driver, unfortunately the RAlink 28xx which is used as the Wifi chip / driver suffers from the same problem. Not 802.11ac certified.Worse it's only draft N certified.

However all of these sets are marketed as having 802.11ac - which they clearly do not.

[Fixed Viewport Workaround]

I have found a way to force the Android UI to full 4k - the x85D is unfortunately underpowered even in 1080p so YMMV;

Enable adb over the network under developer options (which is revealed after clicking on the 'about' build number line several times repeatedly.

Ensure you have adb toolset on your machine (tested in linux; windows users can get adb tools easily by googling it or downloading the official android adk).

once enabled; connect to the tv $adb connect <YOURTVS IP> $adb shell

Once in the TV's shell run

$wm size 3840x2160

to go back to 1920x1080 do

$wm size 1920x1080

you might even want to take it down to 720p as the 85d is pretty terrible dual core arm.

$wm size 1280x720

[Another users great log of bugs/issues and Overview of the Defficencies in the platform]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EPzlq_ipIPMCDoMqMgDl0IuKmTsMoZHeKKwE_zxbFUk/pub

There bug list

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16I2L2dKm3NGVkAilSOxO6i6fuylp2UEUi-DwE7CUPc8/pub

[More Bugs]

  • Screen Mirroring doesn't work when wifi is enabled
  • Google cast doesn't work when Wifi is used as a connection
  • Voice remote feature once disabled (disabling bluetooth) and re-enabling bluetooth/repairing remote - never works again
  • Voice remote feature from sideview app doesn't work (related to the above) after disabling and renabling

[FIX] 120hz 1920x1080 mode EDID

Please find attached an EDID.bin file that correctly supports additional modes not present in the as shipped TV's EDID this potenically can be used with other 55inch Sony's from the last couple of years. But I disclaim all responsibility if it breaks your stuff. Consider it GPLv3 licenced.

In Linux you can add it to the kms edid overide kernel module line (if running F/LOSS graphics stack) or if you are Running Nvidia proprietary you will need to add something like the following to your Screen section in xorg (adjusting the 'DFP-4' section for your output mode. 

Option         "CustomEDID" "DFP-4:/etc/X11/edid.bin"
Option         "IgnoreEDIDChecksum" "DFP-4"

I have also removed the 4096 modes which the set does not actually support from the EDID; all SubChroma modes are present and work i.e 1920x1080@120 4:4:4 works fine.

There are little line/artifacts present but I have been informed this is common to all Sony sets capable of support 120hz

Cheers

@aenertia

Download Link to the EDID: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw2fu74VAaO5cTFUN3lwa2JvX1k/view?usp=sharing

crimsdings

I wish we had ROMs for Sony TV's ... My Sony KDL-65W855C still can't connect to my Sony Bluetooth headset and so much Sony bloatware running it really drags the os down.

aenertia

There is source available - but I started to look at building it and without their toolchain in the form of an SDK it seems impossible... This makes it a GPL violation and perhaps should be pursued.

http://oss.sony.net/Products/Linux/TV/KD-55XD9305.html

WasedaWalker

They all have the same Mediatek ARM CPU, so if you want a Sony you won't find a difference there.

The most powerful CPU in an Android TV panel device is the MStar ARM CPU in the LeEco Android TV devices.

nyteryder79

Did you update yours yet? On my x850c I'm on my third 6.1.1 build... Just wondering if all of these issues exist in the newest firmware.

strcrssd

Sony really dropped the ball with Android TV. I had such high hopes, bought a 850C, and have been disappointed at every turn.

They added bloatware to the OS, used an underpowered CPU, and with the most recent software update, effectively made 1080p hardware decode unwatchable due to decoder glitches.

I'm filing for warranty through my credit card (1 year warranty out of box, come on Sony, you used to mean quality).

acuntex

I once did check debug logs through adb. Even on a fresh device the log shows a lot of errors like "... not found".

Another thing: When watching YouTube 4k Content (e.g. FBE, REACT) it is laggy as hell but even 1080p content gets laggy sometimes. Audio plays fine but the video gets frame drops. (and it is NOT the connection because the buffer contains the next 2 minutes). Anyone else experienced that?

Not sure if the CPU is underpowered or if Sony just did a poor job with the software.

But you know what's even worse and what's frustrating me even more? That there are people like you who put a lot of effort and knowledge in analyzing this problems and you only get 6 (!!!) upvotes and thus not the appropriate attention. :(

memeka

I have the X85C, dual core cortex A17, 1.5GB RAM, mali t624.

I have decided to buy Sony because of Android TV. I have previously had another Bravia, on which I was running Android TV on an external device, which, funny enough, was an 8-core (4xA7 + 4xA15), 2GB ram, mali t628 (same mali, but twice the #of cores). However, this device could decode only 1080p, which was ok for my old sony since it was a 1080p TV.

My experience with X85C has been mixed.

First, I have to point out that the SoC used is not really that important as you might think. Playing a 4K movie is not using the CPU or the GPU at all, so the fact that it's a dual core A17 with a 4-core mali is not affecting at all 4K playback, which is handled by the VPU. I don't really know when the CPU is taxed a lot, the only time i've seen it maxed out is usually at boot, where there's a lot of stuff loading and starting. Similarly, the GPU is being used only in the GUI and games, not playback. In any case, I am pretty sure the GPU does not support 4K. By "support" I mean it's not fast enough to refresh 4K content in any usable framerate, which means that setting the default resolution to 4K should result in a very slow TV interface. But having the GUI run at 1080p I think it's pretty standard stuff, e.g. Kodi does it as well. You want 4K/HDR when you play, not in the Android TV interface. If the interface would be in 4K I would be looking at ways to get it to 1080p. When I was looking to buy the TV, i was waiting for the X85D, hoping it would be a better 64bit SoC, however that was not the case so I got the cheaper C. In any case, Android is still running the userland in 32bit so it doesn't matter at this stage if the SoC is 64bit or 32bit. I would even say that between 4xA53 and 2xA17, I would choose the A17, since single core performance should be more than double, so overall CPU is better, GPU also I think it's a bit better. To have a noticeable better experience, you would need something like the Nvidia Shield, in the levels of performance of 4xA72, and >200GFlops GPU (compare to ~80GFlops currently) - so something more than 2x better in all aspects than the current offering.

Now, my complaints :) What bothers me however is that the interface does feel slow - it is slower than my old device - and I think it's because of the RAM and bandwidth. So having 4GB faster RAM may improve things considerably, also L2 cache (which I don't know the number for mt chips). I was also bothered by the wifi - not the performance, but because it would reconnect very slow, or not at all, to my router (esp. on the 5Ghz channel). I ended up getting a powerline adapter to have it connected via ethernet, which should reach 200-300Mbps. I did not test the ethernet connection, to see if it's limited to 100M, but most chips from that generation didn't have GB eth (or implemented them via USB3) so it would not surprise me. However, I don't run things at high bitrates, so network speed is not an issue for me. I did some casting from apple youtube app, and also I have an airplay app I used to extend/screen mirror my mac desktop 1080p over wifi, but the lag was noticeable - but this would be normal for any network. When playing 4K/HDR, there's a noticeable switch in display settings, and it looks to me blacks become somehow washed up. I don't spend time in shops looking at other TV so I can't really compare 4K quality. A huge annoyance is that bluetooth audio profile is not supported. I wish i could use btooth headsets to listen to the audio, but this is locked down by Sony. This is a really **** move from Sony. Also, I could do without the bloatware installed. I disabled the Sony shelf, but that also kills some other stuff that are useful.

Conclusion: the soc doesn't matter that much when playing media, so i'm not really complaining about it, even tho` i wish it would be x2 better :) bloatware installed and disabled features are annoying; i haven't had some issues OP was complaining about; network connectivity is indeed kind of crappy (but i can stream 4k/60); I don't know how HDR should look but blacks do look washed up.

Ryoka83

You list Google Cast not working if you use a wireless connection. I have a brand new (2 hours since setup) Xbr75x850d and the Google cast on it already stopped showing in my casting list. The TV is setup with a wired connection. I had this problem with the previous TV and Sony support couldn't fix it over the phone so I swapped the TV for a new one. Any suggestions for getting it working?

SupaZT

Hmmm I have a 900E coming this Sat. It was the top 65'' that I researched. What else is there even to recommend? If the UI / Software craps out can't I always just use a shield or chromecast?

greggman

I have an 8500D Japanese version. I haven't had any problem casting but I'm WiFi from laptop to router but wired from router to TV.

Other problems can confirm. I got this TV last September. It's mostly a P.O.S. There was at least one time it literally took 1-2 minutes for the TV to respond just trying to get back to the home screen.

Loading up the list of recorded TV shows (has built in DVR) that app is slow to respond.

2 months ago the TV wouldn't turn on for a few hours. I'd turn it on, the power light would come up, 30 seconds later the TV would reboot. After doing this about 20-30 times (with me trying unplugging it and everything else and trying again) eventually it got the red error light. I left it on and was then away for about 8 hours. When I got back it was working again. No idea what that was about.

I regret purchasing it but choices are actually pretty poor in Japan and prices much higher.

PS: funny update, was trying to play a 720p movie on Kodi on the TV. Most 720p movies play ok but this one was going 2-3fps on parts. So, now playing it by Chromecasting to the TV and it's playing fine. Movie is on HD on router so movie is being streamed to chrome over wifi, chrome is recompressing and sending to TV built in Chromecast support. Looks great ¯\ (ツ) /¯

port3s

I've had the same TV for about 6 months, after the 6.0.1 update I've had little to no issues with the tv and all the features. I use a wired connection, watching movies from my local NAS using Kodi is perfect, 4k HDR content runs smoothly.

Sometimes I'll get a slowdown in the system while running YouTube at the beginning of the video but it'll only happen once and it'll be okay. I also get the volume slowdown here and there but it goes away after 5 seconds or so.

All the issues I've come across have been when using the internal apps and never while using source content, say from a HDMI or component input.

Only gripe with the TV is that it's a bit big and a bit bright for my room at night. (first world problems) An oversight on my part.